Mainframe to Cloud with Steve Steuart, WW GTM Mainframe at AWS

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: Goodafternoon, everyone. Welcome to the latest edition of Walter's World, thePodcast series from a stadia. My name is Walter Sweat. I am the Stadia CTO.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: And thispodcast series is designed to bring in an industry expert to a lived andbreathed mainframe migrations and to share their experiences and their thoughtswith everyone.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: Today I amtruly excited to have someone that I have long respected and been lucky to calla friend with this Steve Stewart, who is the worldwide Go to Marketspecialist at AWS. Steve, Thanks so much for taking the time to be with us today.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Good tosee you.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: Steve,although I think everyone in the industry does know you for those who may notyet know you. Could you tell us a little bit about. You know your career, andand how our paths have crossed over the years.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Yeah, Imean. So you know, most people know. I was the previous CTO of Astadia, and you know, I started in 1992. But prior to that I was at a 4gl company, and then I was a computer operator for the Air Force. So I showed on the mainframe back when it was hanging in tapes and and playing the right ring toss. I don't know if everybody played that, but I used to play that in a as an operator during the mid shift and swing sip.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: But I've been around mainframes for a lot longer I like to admit, but starting from the eighties all the way through, but at Astadia we were working as a 4gl company, and doing y 2 K. Work in 1,992, 93. They twok workstarted happening, and we were looking for cheap offers. and so we partnered withmicro-focus and you scope back in those days of the luggable compacts. Iremember those all too well. This is before the laptop, so we had logables, andI would have to go, andand my team would be using that to test and target, andwe hard our customer at that time, and said.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Well,if you're testing there, can you run it there? And you know. That was our firstmainframe migration back then, and that was ugly.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Onething is testing, and another thing is production. But we learned a lot ofbattle scars, and our team learned a lot as to what it means to take mainframeworkloads, and that's the start of it, and you know our teams have done200 plus since then. And so the lot of experience, you know, dealing with thesetypes of lift and shift re platform re-host, re-factor. How you want to.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: Absolutely.Yeah, I think we all remember those days of £65 laptops, and I don't miss thema bit. I'm: i'm sure

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS:Exactly. So that that's how I that's how I got into this business, and you andI've been. You know we've competed and partnered over the years, depending onwhere you know where you are at and what not. So it's always been a pleasure.And the interesting thing about this industry is a really close knit. You know wemay be competitors and situations, and we'd be helping each other, you know.Sometimes you're a lifeline. I need some help on if you're encountered. Thisand that's that small community that we have is really interesting.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: I think we'reblessed that we have all of us in this industry that ability to shareexperiences and to have organizations that, as you say, we've feed against. But wealso work with, and right bottom line is what's right for the customer, andit's always exciting to get a chance to work together.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Youknow you gotta have success. So if we make each other successful, then thathelps the overall industry. And so I’m a big believer of that. So if somebodyasked me a question of your dealt with dial 280 or some, you know whatever, andI have my little role of decks, and I can help with that then so be it.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: That's theway it should be. So you've been at AWS for multiple years. Now, can you tell whatyour role specifically is at AWS:

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS:Yyeah. So I'm goingon 3 years at AWS, I'm the worldwide GTM, And what that means is that you knowthere's leadership principles here, and that's the earned trust. How do I earntrust with our customers that it's we can provide safe passage of yourmainframe

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: assetsover to the cloud on AWS, and the services and all the things that we bring to. So i'm moreof a an Evangelist type scenario, and you know, do speaking engagements andtalking to customers. And you know.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Walter,you know that how much battle scars we have on in this space. And so you knowthat's it. Nothing like experience, and having the grey hair sitting across theCIO. That's my role.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: It's. I thinkit's not just comforting, but important for companies to talk topeople who have been in the trenches who understand that thechallenges that they're going to face and there will be challenges, obvious,right?

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: But someonewho can help him say, this is what you need to look out for and to help guidethem as they go through, and I don't know if anyone does that better than you.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Iappreciate it. Thank you.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: Talking about AWSspecifically. Now, I think I know this, but I kind of like to ask you to talkabout how important is the mainframe migration market to AWS.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Well,you know we're responding to the to our customers. Our customers have been, youknow. Well, we've been asking our customers. Hey? You need to come to thecloud. There's a benefits to cloud it's good to be the cloud, and our customersare going back

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Great!What am I going to do with my and my Z. 16 and my s 400, and my ex to that allthese different legacy appliances that they currently have. And so this isimportant to us, because our customers have been asking that. And so we've been. We've built a framework to allow safe transition of those legacy workloads onto AWS through different types of programs that we that we've establishedas an industry. First, I I think you'll test it. Then nobody else is doing whatwe're doing here today, and it's just a very interesting way of being able to have access to technologies or the industry first, on coming upwith a certification for mainframe modernization, which you know that's a thatyou apply for, and we validate that you have that our partner ecosystem andprofessional services, but also internally the support that we built aroundessays. So you know these are. It's a who's who? Walter, I think you'll knowyou'll see a lot of folks that are here that it's a Who's who in the mainframemigration space and sellers, as well as part of our worldwide sales supportorganization. So

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: yeah,absolutely all have some superstars who have been in this industry for awfullong time, and have seen the challenges and the successes that people areactually able to have.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: Steve is yourrole as an evangelist,what are some of the biggest concerns you hear fromyour potential customers, as they consider that transition from mainframe tocloud.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Well,it varies right. Theconcerns I have is like. How do I get started? How am I going to do it? I think youknow the way I stated is that we can meet your compute, and I o on the mainframe on this endright compute in I/O we're about 9 to say 90 of the workloads or some workclose. I wouldn't touch Gp up as an example, right? But the we can do that. How do I transitionthat workload? And if you have integration patterns,you know I cannot compete with the compute, and I open on the mainframe goingacross the cloud. And that's one of the reasons why people fail. They do that.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Number 2 is that they confusean in-state architecture with a transitional state architecture. What I mean by that if you're doing big bang, that's great. But ifyou're doing it these accounts are going to do phased approach. So what is your transitionalstate architecture?

Is it Ftp. Rest? Is it MQ, CTG: youknow, CICS transaction gateway, multiple patterns.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: But youneed to have definition of the integration patterns from your transitional, sayarchitecture, definition of real time.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Youknow what's real time? What is the definition of real time? What is the sourceof truth? You have all these things that you have to bring to bear, so thatyou're able to, you know or trust with our customers. But our Number Oneconcern is, how do I get started? How do I break the monolithic into components, right? And you and I had this discussion, that some CIOs don't want to touch it because I'm going to retire 2 in 3 years.Okay. So we'll talk to you in about 2 to 3 years, a lot more people that aremoving and doing so. ButI had never seen a market as hot and active in our I mean, we. Wewere just talking about that I have never seen it like that. Maybe y 2 K.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Youknow, or where we saw a big interest at that time, but I have never seenanything like that than what we're seeing today. I I absolutely agree it, Mr. Buzz me.I don't think that either one of us could have ever imagined other than maybe ay 2 K. And that was kind of forced on the industry. This is the industrysaying, okay, this is the direction. This is the chance for us to do thingsdifferently. Then I've always had to do them, and not to say that the mainframeisn't a part of that equation. In many cases it obviously is. But people aregenuinely looking for alternatives now, and considering all of the ones thatare out there. So I partner with IBM. Right And you know we'resupporting IBM's patterns for hybrid, You know. I do believe that you know there'sgoing to be. You know we're not saying mainframes are bad I think themainframes footprint is going to change it's not going to be the massivefootprint that they are. You're going to find the right workload for thecompute.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: And howdo you leverage? You know that workflow for the compute, and I see it workflowstransitioning. I see workloads going hyper with data augmentation patterns. Ithink Devops is going to be a big thing for it. Some of the stuff that IBM isworking with ansible toyou know, manage the mainframe workloads, I think, isreally cool as to what they're doing there. So you know, from hybrid you know, toaugmentation to re platform, to refactor to devops. So whatever These are allthe patterns that we support our customers on with the mainframe transform withor transform to AWS.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: That's agood way to approach it, and this probably goes hand in hand with what you werejust saying. But one of the things I wanted to ask is when you're talking to someone,and they express their concerns. What are some of the other advantages that youdescribe back to them that they could achieve by moving to the cloud andworking in that environment.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: There are multiple things dependingon the business but I always like to ask how long does it take you to provision100 MIPS? Or 1000 MIPS?

or a 1,000 min right? And so, if it'sold school, buying it, getting it done. Maybe it's quicker. But does it beat24 min? Okay. So I’m able to rapidly create an environment.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Towithin 24 min that has like. You know I can provision COBOL JCL, CICS onthat, I can, you know, have my refactoring capabilities that media you gainthat benefit when you're over there. So so the agility it is one.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Theother thing is that you know, if you had to tackle your technical debt on themainframe, we give you a lot more. We have 200 plus services to tackle thattechnical debt, and you rethink it, and you know it bring some of thatworkload over leverage that data augmentation pattern for read onlytransactions on the mainframe consume it on AWS. There's a widerange of things that I you know sometimes I kind of state what is it safer to use the cloud or not?

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: and Ithink most companies will say that I have to have the cloud in my strategy. Andhow are you competing withthe born in the cloud companies? The fintech and the insurance techs that are coming and have no Broadcomlicensing, or you know, mainframe cost.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: The lastone I do is I have not seen the pitch stack for funding saying Ineed x millions of dollars for my mainframe.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: Yeah, it's a Iknow we have some shared experiences working in the fintech industry, where they werefaced with tremendous challenges, being able to compete to be as responsive asthey needed to be, and that may be one of the driving forces in this movementthat we're seeing now

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: right.I mean that the and the other one is the you know. If you look at all the thebig opportunities that I've seen in the industry is the retiring CIO. So theone that's been there for 30 years doing the same. It gets replaced, or mergesand acquisitions M. And a activity. Oh, yeah, where they come in and they wantto figure out how to do that. So you look in the claims industries. If you're ableto reduce your cost per claim by going to a lower, you know, commodity basedcompute model that's very helpful, and that goes straight to the bottom line.So we're seeing a lot of these things, but more and more the folksare retiring and leaving the workforce and being replaced by digital nativesthat, you know, appreciate the cloud. The mainframesare the ultimate server huggers And so that that whole paradigm kind of changeswhen you're talking about the cloud.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: without adoubt, Steve, do you feel that most organizations that you talk to. who areconsidering a a move away from the mainframe? Are they just trying to replicate theirapplications in the cloud? Or do you feel that they're looking whether it's inone phase or multiple phases that they want to modernize them as well?

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: I Ithink it's the business drivers are really driving towards that. So there are companies that want tomodernize or rejuvenate their existing applications off to the cloud todo that, at AWS we kind of try to advise them as to the different patterns that exist outthere, and each one I

The way I look at it is that you know thegoing into AWS leveraging the lot of the mainframe type. Technologies that we haveis a stepping stone source, the end game, which is cloud native, and, you know sever allyour dependency. You should continue on your journey.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: It'snot. Let's move your mainframe workloads and put you on the cloud. Theopportunities for our customers is, once you're on the clouds to go in thecloud and start consuming the services and getting rid of those CICS transactions and in your databases, and you're moving forward, goinginto from a macro to micro type services. I mean, that's the journey youshouldn't look at i'm going off the cloud. I'm going off to my mainframe,or going to use this and just sit there. It you should have inertia to continueon.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: I I totallyagree. It's like it gives them the chance to transition from that thing that Ihesitate to use word, lock them into a particular environment forever.But it's just a plethora of options that they have available to them that theywouldn't have otherwise.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: And you address thelatencies. If your workload is right there, and we can provision, workload onthe same rack with your database, and you're you have now the keep an Iio bustype almost similar to what you had before, so we've got to lookat. What are the drivers and what they are doing? I always tell our customers,you know.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: if you're if it's just a costsaving measure. That's great. But you really have to look at thebenefits of agility tackling your technical debt with the 200 plus services.And what is my application going to be doing tomorrow?And where do I want to go and do I? Is it land, the serverless, and those typesof things? And how do I start, You know, kicking off that journey.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: That makessense, Steve. I know that you and I agree on this next question, but I thinkit's an important one. I want to ask it, anyway. You mentioned patterns before,so whether it's re-platforming or re-hosting or refactoring. What do you tellclients about whatis the best pattern, or is there such a thing as a best pattern?

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Myfavorite pattern is the retired pattern. Eliminate scope. So that's one. Butbetween the ones that you're just talking to. It's really what is the bestpattern for you, and it's also like, an eye exam: one or two, and youtell the I doctor it'sgoing to be one, and you'll determine the pattern that's best for you, based onwhat you're trying to achieve.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: And so all of them are validpatterns. But what is the what I would say is, you need to do that bottom upassessment and figure out those big boulder items which are, you know, initiativesthat the business is asking, and I like to rate them on the Richter scale. Sofrom one to 10, if I provide this to Mary down the hall, it's an 8 on theRichter scale for her.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: right?And then, okay, that's important. How do I achieve that now? You need thatreferee to tell Mary, hey? That may be an 8 on you. But for the business it'sreally a 5. So you still need to have that, because the users will will messyou up. But back to your question. I mean, the patterns really depends on whatyour business drivers are.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Do youhave cobalt developers? You have Java developers, do you? I ran into a company.I had a 1,000 global developers in India. Another company had 0, only thestaff. So that will start dictating the pattern. Do you like your application.No, I don't like my application. I don't like the refactor. I don't like, Iwant to do new, okay, strangler pattern data augmentation.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: So itall comes when you're having dialogue and that assessment with our customersand workshops to determine what is the best pattern.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: I know. I'vereally admired what you and the team at AWS have done, andbeing able to be responsive to customers, and recognizing that they do havedifferent needs and what's right for one may not be right for another and a weat Astadia try to do the same thing, to to listen to what the clients have tosay and to help them find the pluses and minuses of these differentpatterns, and then work with them to give them the solutions that they need.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS:Correct. That's correct. I mean, we focus on the customer, work back. And sothat's why.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: If youlook at all the things that we have within our service offering, which is amanaged service, capability, industry. First, to allow you provision the toolsto do whatever you need to do from assessment to deployment. So if you havethese oddball technology stacks that we need to deal with, the you know, the Cages and the ideal. And the Ca: data comes, and all those things that we bringinto partner community to help and address those

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: one of thethings that we're often asking. I'm sure that you are often asked is aboutperformance. What could you share about what your experiencehas been working with organizations in terms of performance that AWScustomers have seen as they.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Yeah, Ithink it's kind of interesting. You know, people have beenfinding alternative compute models for 30 years. and the main mainframemigration. Modernization business is not built on failures, and notbeing able to scale and not being able to run the same type of workloads,there's a lot of mainframe workloads even before AWS got in. That'salready been running on. Prem. There are significant. So we know that to me the adventof SSD really opened up mainframe type workflows, because now you could do andcompete with the I/O that IBM had on that. And for in I would say 100% ofwork, but a good majority.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: And soI always compare that with there are mainframe workloads running on AWS. Amazonis a mainframe class workload 24, 7 needs to be available millions of queues. PCI. Youknow. Credit card authorizations, inventory reorders all that. That's amainframe class workload, and so it can scale.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: But ifyou have a poorly written application that really performs bad, it's going toperform bad on AWS as well. You can't hold this to that same standard. We have to lookat it. And how can we optimize it? But I can safely state.You know, we canhandle the majority of the mainframe workloads to scale as secure as what youcurrently have today. I've seen it.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: We'veyou and I've been doing this for a long time it is possible. And so it's hard to convincepeople that you know we haven't been in business for 30 years basedon failures.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: correct, andit's not easy. I we've been both together in front of our clients, and we'veheard we say there is no staples easy button. It takes that same level ofattention that you give the mainframe

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: thecloud that same right. Treat the work to look like you treat the mainframe. Youdon't do some of these wacky patches without checking everybody on. I've seenon these Window servers that you that you know in the mainframe you you treatit like a mainframe workload, respect it.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: right,and if you do that, then you can actually do a, you know, be able to scale andmake sure you provide it with enough. You know resources that it needs, and youknow it's a very sophisticated workload that.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: Steve. I liketo ask this of you. Why do you feel that AWS is the bestplatform for companies to consider when they're looking at Cloud. What's whatspecifically about? AWS do you do that? You all just excel at.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Well, Ican tell you. I've been in the industry a long time, and I've never seenanything like this but for mainframe workloads that want to transform their workloads,either with or to AWS with the cloud or data augmentation, what we have built here ismultiple things. One is a manage service where you don't have to procure thetools from the vendors or whatnot, that you just provision that from yourconsole it's totally managed and scalable automatically available in ourregion. So this service is available.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Iforget the number you caught me on that. But there's a lot of regionsthroughout the world, and if there's a reason it's not on. We can have amechanism to provide that on there. Number 2 access to the solutions, architectsthat are Who's Who? In the mainframe space that been in the mainframemigrations Yet you can access those.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: youknow. People like myself have been in the industry for a long time.Our partnerecosystem, where we have certifications that we know that when we refer apartner they've been there done that.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: andthat we can actually, you know, work on that. We also have, you know, thepartner equals in the certification, but the investment vehicles that we havefor our partners to kick off their mainframe journey. So what I could say thatdifferentiates us from everybody else is that internally we have a littledirectory. So if you type in mainframe, we have a lot of people that have mainframesin their titles, and that's an industry first.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: youknow the amount of people that we have with mainframes and their titles here tohelp you not force feeding you a pattern. But what is the best pattern foryou, and how to get started. Our partners range from IBM themselves all theway down to all the SIs to Astadia to where all of these folks, so that that's what we reallyit's an industry first. I've never seen anything like it

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: I would agree.I mean you all do have that amazingly strong talent pool who have thescars, who know what it means, not just running the mainframe, but how tomigrate from a mainframe? What are the ins and outs and the things that youneed to look for, because those are 2 totally different concepts and it'simportant to understand both.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS:correct.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: You talked aboutarchitecture other earlier. How important is it from your perspective tounderstand the architecture of the mainframe applications as thereplacement, architecture and the cloud is defined. Things like as whatyou mentioned before. Compute versus data versus all of the other componentsthat are there. How? How important is it to know what you're startingfrom? To be able to define what you're getting to.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: The way I look at it when I’mtalking with the folks that are in the room like thisthe mainframe guys, sitting there with their arms cross. I'm here because my boss told me to behere, and I think you and I have been in many of those meetings. You know the mainframe isthe original cloud.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Thatwas the original cloud. And if you look at some of the components that exist inthe cloud, you know, and I’ll par as an Ec. 2, and your database goes intoAurora. We can do word associations of how we break up to those architectures.Now, we're not here to replicate, duplicate the exact architecture that you havein our mainframe. But how do we break those into different components? Yourpresentation, like your application layer and database layer into the bestarchitecture to take advantage of the cloud itself.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: So youmay want to be event driven, but maybe you can consider that as an event. But these arethe things that we have to understand, and we can get you there. But we do havea lot of architectures based on what we're, seeing that we can provide someguidance on to kick start from.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: And thatmakes sense. You don't just automatically get there. You have to understand what the trade offsare and what you need to consider. And then, once you're there, thendecide even beyond that what you want to do to leverage and AWS I think,excels at providing that capability it's going to take work, and it takesdedication, and you need sponsorship. I mean, this is not an easy thing.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: I meanit's. It's something that has to be done.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: So it'slike, I said. What'sbetter?

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Nothing on the cloud juststaying on the mainframe or working with the cloud. Have the mainframe and thecloud in your arsenal. Yup. And I think that's you know more and morewhat we're seeing. Yeah, the benefits of both. I think that's a great way to doit. Similarly.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: I view it thisway. Do you feel that companies have more flexibility now in the tools thatexist in the cloud? Talking about the mainframe numbers of companies we've talked toover the years who don't have a DR. Now in the cloud being able to have a DR, theenvironment is so drastically easier. Same thing for like data replication, theways that you can do security that you're not tied to just mainframe ways. Doyou think that that flexibility is greater now than it used to be?

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Again,we're seeing those along with the architects. You know that that are digital natives that areaccustomed to that. They're entering in the enterprise, saying, hey, I’m customto this type of architecture Where is that over here? And that that is anotherbenefit for that, so that how can you have your DR plans and things of that nature,for that definitely is something that we're seeing as a selling point. Really,it's an advantage to have that, and being able to to tap into it.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: or without adoubt, without a doubt.Steve, last question. I’d like toask you and I've asked several folks who've been on the podcast this question:If you were to put on your Swami hat, look in your crystal ball, do you see thepace of companies who are now, considering the cloud.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: Is, is thatgonna change over the next 5 years we talked before about while it's morehectic than it's ever been. Do you see that changing?

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Walter,we spoke over to the years, and every year goes I have never seen anything likeit. And then the next year. It's like you know. I can't. I can't believe it'smore than last year, and then now this year it's even more than that, so I’m scared tosee what's going to happen in the next 5 years. But I I do believe that this is not the end of themainframe, right? I think the mainframe is going to be around long time beforeyou and I are be gone and doing different things right. I think it's going tobe around. It's not going to be the same.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: I thinkthere's certain workflows that you need to stay on the mainframe. Absolutely.They're designed. They the best there, right? And so to me is that I thinkwe're seeing. But

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: there'sa lot of workloads that you can move over, and there's a lot of workloads thatcan do that. And that's why you know that's where we're in this business, andand I think you know I do see a mainframe in the future. In the next 5 years Iwould say easy, 10-20 years that would be out there, but it's going to be different. But in the next 5 years we're seeingexponential interest.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: Lookwhat's happened in our industry is when our CEO said that we're goinginto the mainframe monetization space, and we're going to provide this service,and we're going to provide you resources and templates and experts that you canhave access. That's what I call an earned trust moment when you and I are ontheir smaller companies, and we're trying to talk to a multi 1 billion dollarcompany. Hey? Trust us, we can do this.

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: It'snot gonna happen. But when you're talking about a 70 billion dollarcompany partnered with the Accentors of the world and all these large SIs. That'swhy we're seeing this type of interest right? And it's it's gonna grow

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: I think so, I think 20years from now there will be a book written about that point in time when I didproclaim that because that seemed to be the thing that said, okay, let's strapin because this is about to get fun, right?

Steve Steuart - Worldwide GTM, AWS: I mean, Iwas laughing because when the announcement happened to say, Steve, youavailable to talk to ABC. Company. Go! Those folks escorted me out when I said, let'smove off pram and move that mainframe workload. I mean it's a little. Are youcrazy? So we're seeing the folks that would that, you know, never leave or theBleed blue folks that are actually talking about hybrid and all the differenttypes of patterns. Absolutely, without a doubt.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: Steve, I wantto thank you. I know what your schedule is like, and I know it's not easy tocarve out 30 min, and I truly appreciate you taking the time. I know theaudience had to really appreciate your experiences, and what you see in thisindustry, and I know that you're welcome, any of them reaching out to you. Ifthey have any questions, I appreciate it definitely. So just reach out to I'mon Linkedin. So you can find me there, and if you have any questions reach out.

Walter Sweat - CTO, Astadia: all right.Thanks so much, Steve and to the audience. Thank you today for taking the time,as always, we really appreciate you attending these podcast series elements,and we look forward to providing plenty of more. So please don't hesitateto look us up@www.stadia.com and check our our podcast series to see what'scoming up. Thank you all, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Bye.

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